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28 December 2008 @ 02:47 pm
A side note  
Dear Americans,
Outside of your strange, strange country, most of the developed world has this marvellous thing which we like to call health care for all. I'm reading an interesting mpreg (that will teach me not to read the warnings!*) story from hd_hols and the poverty-stricken pregnant one is in despair as his health insurance will not cover it. On the off-chance it was written by someone on my flist, the good for society news is that in the UK, this is not the problem you might think it is! And I have my fingers crossed that in the US, it won't be for much longer, either.

(And if anyone is planning to respond telling me that socialised healthcare is evil, I will LAUGH AT YOU, and then I will QUOTE REAMS OF STATISTICS until you FLEE.)

XXX
BB


* And yes, my dislike of mpreg is not supported by the excellent writing that occurs within that genre and the imaginative plots that many superior writers bring to bear on the concept. But I still don't like it!
 
 
 
uminohikariuminohikari on December 28th, 2008 04:15 am (UTC)
...yeah, that's not going to happen in the US for a while. :| There are too many enemies of it.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:21 am (UTC)
Those enemies are EVIL and almost wholly in the pay or sway of huge corporations that care only for their bottom lines. I have this childlike hope that the combination of Obama and GFC will allow for a once-in-a-lifetime major cycle of change in the US that will see most of its citizens finally benefitting from the nation's potential.

Not Quite Donne: being self-importantnqdonne on December 28th, 2008 04:18 am (UTC)
psst: socialised health care IS evil! :P :P :P (not joking, honestly -- I'm not a fan, and at least one point you have to concede is that the dentistry systems in socialized medicine systems aren't on par with the US system -- the dentistry I found in Germany was COMPLETELY useless).

Also, I beta read that story and TOLD the author that the UK has socialized medicine, so, yeah. Also, they're not American :P
Not Quite Donne: charlotte strawnqdonne on December 28th, 2008 04:21 am (UTC)
Oh, and also, the main thing is that socialized medicine is an unrealistic solution for the US given the size of our population, our pre-existing issues with our social security and work benefits system (aka: not enough people work/pay taxes to support our CURRENT systems), and with how deeply rooted we are in our current health care system. Sorry, it wouldn't work, and you can pry my health benefits from my cold, dead hands. LOL. This doesn't mean we don't need health care reform, but socialized health care is, regardless, NOT the solution for us.

Also, I HATE the film Sicko. Michael Moore is a dense moron who totally lacks nuance.
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snottygrrl on December 28th, 2008 09:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nqdonne on December 28th, 2008 04:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nqdonne on December 28th, 2008 04:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - joanwilder on December 28th, 2008 07:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Voldemoo: violety miciefrantic_mice on December 28th, 2008 04:25 am (UTC)
Yeah. Dun liek Mpreg either. BUT! Yeah, I have read good Mpreg. Roma and Brumms and I think Oldie's wrote a fic I liked too, with mpreg in it. But. Yeah. Usually what I don't like in Mpreg is that it changes the characters into these peeps that I'm rly not interesting in knowing moar about. Instead of remaining individuals they become DAD and it's all about cuteness and stuff and the PASSION! and DRAMA just fizzles. Which is BULLCRAP cause family? It's intense. I think the Mpreg I've lieked was the one where the PEEPS weren't lost in the mechanics of the thing. 'Cause it's like Scifi somtiems, with the bolts and the POW POW and the ship and the action takes over and the characters are left behind. This happens in Mpreg, except when it doesn't. :)))))))))))))
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:38 am (UTC)
'Cause it's like Scifi somtiems, with the bolts and the POW POW and the ship and the action takes over and the characters are left behind. This happens in Mpreg, except when it doesn't.

OMG, Mousie! That is the perfect explanation of why it makes me into crazy Brammers! It is as though you are inside my head! (Saying 'Good god, woman, when was the last time you tidied in here?')
(no subject) - frantic_mice on December 28th, 2008 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
Bryoneybryoneybrynn on December 28th, 2008 04:25 am (UTC)
Yes to all of the above!

And ha! Because I accidentally read an mpreg too. I was all "Fuck, they should really have warned for that!" and of course when I looked at the warnings it was there in CAPSLOCK!!! I think my brain just filtered it out as too traumatic to process. lol
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:45 am (UTC)
HEE! We are reading too quickly! And our brains are highly trained to avoid the word mpreg!
(no subject) - annafugazzi on December 28th, 2008 05:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sesheta_66 on December 28th, 2008 07:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 12:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - romaine24 on December 28th, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 06:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - romaine24 on December 28th, 2008 08:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sesheta_66 on December 28th, 2008 07:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
joanwilder~RaeWhitjoanwilder on December 28th, 2008 04:26 am (UTC)
Having been a medical professional for the past 30 years, ten of them spent in the healthcare insurance industry, I'd have to say that the answer for us (the States) is not a universal healthcare system as you know it, but an amalgamation of employer funded/government assisted care. And here, care is care is NEVER denied in the case of mother deliveries/prenatal care/children's healthcare, nor is care required in an emergency room ever denied, REGARDLESS of insurance coverage. It's the law, and sometimes I think non-U.S. citizens have seen waaaaay too much of Michael Moore's rubbish. Both my husband and I have had cancer in the past five years: had either of us lived in Canada or the U.K., given their treatment modalities/wait times, we'd both be dead by now. The plans currently on the table for universal healthcare right now are all employer assisted plan, and would not preclude private contribution.

I made a short post about this issue a while back. You can see it here. I won't tell you universal healthcare is evil, but I will say that expecting the universal application of it as a workable fix in the U.S. is laughable.
Anna Fugazzi: OMGannafugazzi on December 28th, 2008 06:27 am (UTC)
Both my husband and I have had cancer in the past five years: had either of us lived in Canada or the U.K., given their treatment modalities/wait times, we'd both be dead by now.
Eeeeep... as a Canadian who has seen ::counting up:: four people deal with cancer, is married to a doctor, and has been following this in the news for lo these many years, this kind of statement doesn't sit terribly well with me. We do have wait times, it's true; one of my kids had to wait six months to get tubes put in his ears, and my mom had to wait for months to see a back specialist for her back pain. But for life and death situations? The stats don't bear out the claims, but few people bother to check them out.

Eg, Paul Tsongas, who ran for President in the eighties, apparently had a standard comeback to queries as to whether he supported universal healthcare or not: he said that he didn't, because he was a cancer survivor, and was only alive because the US had no socialized health care. In a system like Canada's, he claimed, he not only would've had to wait way too long to get the treatment he needed; the treatment itself would've come courtesy of the States, since Canadian doctors, being mere civil servants, didn't do the kind of groundbreaking research in Canada that they did in the States.

Americans heard and believed, and repeated his words all over the place. The irony of it was, not only would Tsongas have been just fine if he'd been sick in Canada; he would've been given the same treatment whether he was a Senator or a garbageman, and - and this was the part that made me see red - he would've been treated with the same treatment he received in the States, which was developed at a hospital in Toronto.

I know our health care system isn't perfect; I hear all about it from my partner. But a lot of the time what I read about its supposed ills from Americans bears little or no resemblance to the system I know. Wait times for non-essentials and scarcity of doctors and nurses up north? Yeah, guilty, absolutely. But... the government dictating which family doctor you get? Um... what? Doctors forced to describe your medical secrets to the government in order to get paid? Uh, no. No medical research of any note? Sorry, wrong there too.

I'd love to read your post, above, but can't see it. Here's a random post re. the other side of Canadian health care (woefully out of date, but still relevant in some areas, and certainly less inflammatory and innacurate than Sicko ;))

http://www.newrules.org/journal/nrwin01health.html
(no subject) - joanwilder on December 28th, 2008 06:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - annafugazzi on December 28th, 2008 06:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - joanwilder on December 28th, 2008 06:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
romaine24romaine24 on December 28th, 2008 04:41 am (UTC)
Well we don't really know how St. Mungo's works. Even though Britain might have socialized medicine doesn't mean the wizarding world would. And, I don't think Draco would be trotting into Muggleland for help. *snicker*

However, I agree about us dear Americans. *sigh*
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 05:00 am (UTC)
True, though if they are going to embrace treacle tart, I can't see them having a private-only health care system ;-) Even in the 18th century there were plenty of charity hospitals!

I only worry because I love you all so and am permanently outraged about your short holidays and polluted waterways.
Snape's Angel: quillangela_snape on December 28th, 2008 04:43 am (UTC)
I don't understand the appeal of mpreg, myself. But - that hasn't stopped me from dabbling in writing it, and enjoying a well-written mpreg fic. But I certainly don't seek it out.

PS... what do you blame Brampton for?
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:57 am (UTC)
Gillian Brampton dragged me into fandom with her wily little tales and cheery 'it's good for you, it won't take up all your free time' chats. LIES! (though it is good for me.)

There is very good stuff out there, I am the first to admit, but yes, like you, I do not seek it out.
(no subject) - angela_snape on December 28th, 2008 04:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - angela_snape on December 28th, 2008 05:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 06:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - annafugazzi on December 28th, 2008 06:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sesheta_66 on December 28th, 2008 07:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Azure Jane Lunaticazurelunatic on December 28th, 2008 04:44 am (UTC)
Ha, I saw that one. And I read it, too!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 04:58 am (UTC)
I'm still reading it, there's some real talent in the writing, though I keep having to make myself read all the preggers detail. I like babies, but I like them over there until they are three or four and interesting ;-)
(no subject) - azurelunatic on December 28th, 2008 05:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azurelunatic on December 28th, 2008 09:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azurelunatic on December 28th, 2008 09:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azurelunatic on December 28th, 2008 09:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - alienor77310 on December 28th, 2008 11:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 12:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
beatnikspinster on December 28th, 2008 05:12 am (UTC)
Good grief, mpreg and American healthcare politics?! You firestarter, you. ;)
*removes self to a safe distance*
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:07 am (UTC)
I KNOW! Also, I think Obama is hot without his shirt on AND that the Pope is a raging hypocrite for condemning transvestism while wearing that frock!

Now THAT should keep the snowed-in types warm for a while ;-)
E McGeemelusinahp on December 28th, 2008 05:16 am (UTC)
Oh my god. *starts reading warnings very carefully*

I have no idea if the quality or writing is generally good or bad in mpreg stories, because I NEVER READ IT. *shudders for a bit longer than is strictly decent*

And, you know, living in the UK and having the NHS as a given is so awesome. I can't even tell you.

And coming across an error like that in a fic would make me stop reading instantly.

But I don't like Michael Moore either.
maggiemarguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 06:20 am (UTC)
I NEVER READ IT.
Oh! That makes me sad.

There are some truly excellent fic out there that get skipped because of the Mpreg warning.
(no subject) - melusinahp on December 28th, 2008 10:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 05:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - melusinahp on December 28th, 2008 10:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
maggie: Dom with baby by Sheld0nmarguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 06:15 am (UTC)
1) Was that the Charlie/Draco Mpreg? I quite adored it.

2) Speaking of Health Care issues. I quite like the aussie version. Being friends with an Australian Doctor, I was treated to many a discussion on how Canada's HC issues could be solved by the Aussie model.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:26 am (UTC)
THERE'S CHARLIE/DRACO MPREG????!! It's true, you really can find everything on the internet, and now my brain is scarred.

Yes, I have to say that the Aussie version is pretty good. I like its balance of public and private options, and the fact that the mix keeps costs down in both sectors. Fingers crossed your pollies give it a look!
(no subject) - drgaellon on December 28th, 2008 12:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 12:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 05:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lilian_cho on December 28th, 2008 11:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on December 28th, 2008 05:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Meredythmeredyth_13 on December 28th, 2008 06:17 am (UTC)
Without intending any offence to any US citizens who may glance past this comment - I think the only thing sadder and more scary than the state of health care in the US of A is the fact that US citizens actually do defend it and get angry if you dare suggest that allowing people to die for want of medicine or treatment might not be the best possible system.

*headdesk*

*hugs you* - btw - mpreg? No, it's not my thing either, although as you say, there's been some damned good writing in the genre, and I have been known to peruse the odd piece if sufficiently well rec'd.
SilentAurorsilentauror on December 28th, 2008 06:46 am (UTC)
I agree with this exactly. Canada's system is not great, but it's a hell of a lot better than the US's! I've lived there without insurance, and it's ugly! As I will always be poor, yet always be paying taxes, I'm delighted that I don't have to pay for something I've taken for granted all my life as a human right. The fact that people have to pay to see doctors in other places was one of the most horrifying things I ever learned as a child!

Agreed on the mpreg front, too. Not the part about reading it on purpose, ever - just that I agree that there are good things written within the genre. I despise the genre itself, however. Ditto for creature!fic and any number of other things. Just picky. :D
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - silentauror on December 28th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 29th, 2008 03:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - silentauror on December 29th, 2008 07:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 09:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
parallel parking prodigyempress_jae on December 28th, 2008 07:19 am (UTC)
you read mpreg? o_O i thought we talked about this...

:P

Edited at 2008-12-28 07:19 am (UTC)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:05 am (UTC)
It's not badly written, but I have had to run away from the story twice now, just back from Ikea! New shelves!!
(no subject) - empress_jae on December 28th, 2008 08:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
grey_hunter on December 28th, 2008 07:48 am (UTC)
LOL This post is great. XD

Go research!

Mmmm now I'm looking forward to reading that fic, cos: yay mpreg! :D
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:13 am (UTC)
Hee! You will like it! I am not sure about it yet because I am only halfway through, but it's mpreg and I am still reading, so the author has done something right!
Seshetasesheta_66 on December 28th, 2008 07:56 am (UTC)
** SPOILER COMMENT **

Hmm. If that's the hd_hols fic I'm thinking of, I kinda read it as the wizarding community introducing a law to deny DEs treatment, not as a lack of universal health care (more a retraction of it for a certain segment of society). And given the person, he wouldn't know about the UK Muggle system, nor could he go there because he's a guy, and he required magical treatment. So it didn't throw me out at all.

** END SPOILER **

As a Canadian, I can't imagine having to pay for healthcare. It's just something that's always there. Is it mis-managed? Hell, the finances are run by the government. Of course it is! But are people dying from waiting too long? I don't believe it. I haven't seen evidence of that, despite some rumours. Do mistakes happen? Sure they do. Is it devastating for those involved? Of course. But I don't see a direct correlation between UHC and that.

I've known many people who've been treated for cancer, etc., and have received phenomenal treatment here. Without having to go south of the border. Occasionally, the wait requires treatment elsewhere (out of the city/province/country), but in my experience that's the exception, not the rule.

I won't presume to know how the US system works, but the idea of going broke, losing my house, or losing all I've worked for just to stay alive/healthy is scary to me.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on December 28th, 2008 08:15 am (UTC)
Yeah, agree with you on that last paragraph!

It probably is the same fic, and that is an interesting interpretation of the idea. What pulled me up was the word 'insurance', if they had said that the character would not be able to afford to pay, I don't think I would have had an issue with it because I'd have probably made the same reading leaps that you did. I'll go with yours!