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01 September 2010 @ 07:27 pm
LJ changes bring LJ musings ...  
For my part, I'm not too perturbed about the Facebook and Twitter things, since a couple of my posts went a little viral over the last two years and exactly nothing bad happened as a result. But then, I live in the happy place of having no kids, working as a creative where everyone already thinks I am a little mad, not writing actual porn, and not being able to remember when my last flocked post was, because this is not the place where I post personal stuff.

So I won't be making a list of grumbles about what I'll do if ... because it doesn't really affect me.

But I still think LJ has made a major miscalculation. They've taken a step in the Google/Facebook direction, where the underlying sentiment is that if you want something to be private, it shouldn't be on the internet. I believe that LJ is misreading itself here. For every person who uses their LJ to communicate publicly, there is at least one who uses it to communicate privately. So while the first type of user is like me, where stories, ideas, rants and sometimes just rubbish form the content of posts, the second type of user is someone who is hoping to speak to a small group of people. They may be people that he or she knows and who are far away or busy, so LJ provides a useful forum, or perhaps they are looking for new people who can talk to them and make them feel less alone, which is something that each and every one of us has done at some point in our lives and not everyone has the luxury of a large family or peer group to find those people in.

So for those private people, what LJ has done here is said that your desires are less important than the desires of those who comment on your posts. Now there is a case to be made that comments made on an LJ belong to the commenter and not the poster (indeed, it's the reason I did not import comments to Dreamwidth when I copied much of my LJ over), but picking them up and taking them outside is like you making a phonecall in the middle of a private conversation we're having at my house, so that suddenly the conversation is you, me, and the West Dapto Basketball Team, which is not what I was expecting when I invited you round for a private chat about whether or not your herbal deodorant was working.

And again, when I say that, it's a joke, but for people who are dealing with serious issues, it's not.

For some people I know of on LJ, there are very serious issues indeed. I know of people who have had fandom issues cause them grief in everything from their marriages to working with children. The solution to that in the past has been to make their LJs wholly private, but this new setting removes that certainty of privacy from their hands to the hands of anyone they allow to comment on their posts, because any comment can include a quote, and now go immediately outside the flock.

It is true that in the past people could copy and paste from behind flock anyway, but it was not as easy, and not as certain to have come from the original poster.

So now we have a system where people are reliant on others not to be twats. Which I must say is often a safe thing to rely on, the vast majority of people being actually quite decent*. But in battles of child custody, or in serious investigations into the backgrounds of those wanting to work in many agencies, the rules are not the same.

Now it may be that I have the wrong end of the stick and that somewhere in the chaos that is LJ settings is a box marked: Hide me from Facebook and Twitter, for I care not for them! But I canna find it if it's there.

I do believe that it is something LJ will fix, because they seem to not be complete bastards (unlike Facebook), but I also believe it is something they should have not broken in the first place, and which a small amount of thought would have kept whole.

* In three years on LJ I seem to have attracted about three people who seem to hate me, which at one a year is not actually bad. It appears to bring them great joy. Bless!

girl; obsessedcomplications_g on September 1st, 2010 09:49 am (UTC)
You have haters? O_o
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 09:54 am (UTC)
I do! I was quite excited to learn about them! They seem to be very happy hating me, so I am happy they have found a hobby they love.
(no subject) - complications_g on September 1st, 2010 09:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - meredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - meredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
remuslives23: mood crankyremuslives23 on September 1st, 2010 09:50 am (UTC)
I don't actually care if the buttons or app are there. I won't use them. There needs to be an opt out option, though, so I can say 'NO' to those who venture into my journal. It's not hard for a tech savvy person to link usernames and real identities and, for those with stalkers, or estranged family, or any other of a dozen bad, bad real life things happening, it could prove dangerous, not just inconvenient or an invasion of privacy. LJ wants to take away what little privacy flocking provides.

*shows LJ two very specific fingers*
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 09:53 am (UTC)
I fully agree with you, and would have expected this to exist before it was rolled out. I fully expect it to exist very very soon, and LJ to be rather embarrassed if they have any sense.
(no subject) - davidkevin on September 1st, 2010 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
quatrefoilquatrefoil on September 1st, 2010 09:51 am (UTC)
Can you explain the Twitter and Facebook implications - I'm obviously not accross them. I suspect it doesn't apply to me since most of my posts are flocked and I don't use either Twitter or Facebook, but I am concerned about my privacy.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:00 am (UTC)
Assuming I understand it correctly, which given the state of my flu is not guaranteed, when someone posts a comment to a journal, they can tick the Facebook and/or Twitter boxes and at the same time they post it on LJ, post it on the other forum. This includes any material quoted from the original post the comment is responding to.

I have to say that I do not know if there is any automatic link back to the post. I should find that out.

People who WANT to automatically copy across platforms can choose it as their default option for all LJ use.

What there is not, and should be, is an opt out feature to allow LJ users to say 'No thanks, I don't want people to be able to automatically go to another forum from here.'
Facebook reposting - edm on September 1st, 2010 10:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Facebook reposting - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - quatrefoil on September 1st, 2010 11:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 11:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - quatrefoil on September 1st, 2010 12:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - meredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
Rosefourth_rose on September 1st, 2010 10:10 am (UTC)
I don't think either that LJ are complete bastards, but I'm beginning to think that they're terminally stupid because they still have no clue what their user base wants or doesn't want...
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:12 am (UTC)
Oh I agree with you so very much!

They're like a kid who is SO EXCITED because he's fixed the sliding window and only realises that nailing it open is not the best solution when mum talks him through it slowly.

I imagine by the weekend there will be a big 'Oh, yeah ... oops ...'

Apparently that moment has already come about the slashes in tags and they are fixing it as we speak. Sigh.
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 1st, 2010 10:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 11:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 1st, 2010 11:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - drbunsen on September 9th, 2010 08:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - davidkevin on September 1st, 2010 02:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Meredyth: Draco's Not Impressedmeredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:10 am (UTC)
Being one of the second group, not for any reasons other than that my journal is my private place to share with the people I allow there - I am amazingly miffed over this.

Because unlike DW, LJ also doesn't give you the option to 'subscribe' to interesting journals that you want to read, but don't necessarily want to give access to your own things. And frankly, trying to remember which custom privacy group to use for things is tedious. So there are people who I have 'friended' for reasons other than to allow access to my musings, and I'd prefer to keep watching them be interesting.

Also, given how they appear to have structured the settings for this (based on what I've read so far), the potential for accidentally crossposting a private entry is reasonably high. This may be erroneous information.

No - I've seen nothing to allow people to lock their journals against this. I'd also like the damned ticky boxes and 'helpful hints' to go away.

My ire may be compounded by the fact that I am actually passionately opposed to FB, in a truly violent kind of way. T I can see might have its uses - but I am so far unconvinced, and can't see why people can't deal with NOT having either connected to EVERYTHING!

Ah well, I may be a minority, but I'm an angry, annoyed and aggravated minority.

Bring on the revolution, I say!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:15 am (UTC)
Allons enfants de la Patrie
Le jour de gloire est arrivé

Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons!
Marchons, marchons,
Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons.

(Have torn one shoulder of shirt to expose breast and grabbed flag!)
(no subject) - meredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 10:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - meredyth_13 on September 1st, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mabonwitch on September 2nd, 2010 04:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 11:31 am (UTC)
You know, I suspect that your theory on their mentality is close to the truth Which is rather sad.

And yes, giving that power wholly to the commenter is the most disturbing part of the whole thing, to me.
Casaella_irene on September 1st, 2010 10:59 am (UTC)
Considering the contents of my last few posts, DNW! I mean, the really sensitive stuff is locked to people I know in person, and am fairly good friends with, and I absolutely trust them not to re-post to Twitter and FB, but nonetheless!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 11:22 am (UTC)
Yeah, I agree. There should definitely be an Opt in/out option (with no being the default), and I hope there will be soon!
Hueyphoenixacid on September 1st, 2010 11:35 am (UTC)
They see Brammers rollin', they hatin'... *boos at them* ;)

I really hope that LJ WILL fix it soon. It's just so. not. cool.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 11:45 am (UTC)
dey see me trollin

But no booing! It is the right of everyone on the internet to take umbrage wherever they will! For my part, I prefer to expend my energies hating Glenn Beck.

And yeah, not cool is exactly the right phrase.
AMY 凛☆ラブ☆アタックtomatoe18 on September 1st, 2010 12:03 pm (UTC)
Good lord, even Brammers has something to say about this - this is serious!!!


No, kidding aside, I'm not on Facebook (although you know I am on Twitter), so I'm not overly concerned about privacy settings. But personally I think it's really stupid that they have to do it on the comments as well. I think on the new post page should be enough. (Even then, I'm slightly bothered by the way they seem to be jumping the bandwagon - following the so-called 'trend' - but I guess this is inevitable.)

Although... correct me if I'm wrong (and I definitely can be wrong about this) but I've always had the impression that LJ is a different animal altogether than the likes of Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr and whatnot. I always see it something more like Wordpress - a blogging tool - but more social. And while LJ has plenty of communities, but I still think the way comms function differ greatly from, say, a group on FB. So I don't see why LJ should change so much to keep up with these trends. What are they aiming with them anyway? More users? More flexibility? More attention? I have no idea!

Anyway, the settings need to be fixed. The users should still get the option to display or not display these repost to FB and Twitter buttons!

Also, LJ always says that they did surveys and beta-testing with old and new users, but I don't think they really do it. If the number of hate comments directed at them is any indication, they really fail at market research. This baffles me.

Anyway. I can't believe I abandoned some 2700+ books out there in the selling floor, waiting to be displayed, to write this comment for you! XD
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 12:31 pm (UTC)
HA! yes, if an LJ issue can actually grasp my attention, it must be ... oh look, a kitty!

I agree with you, the fundamental vibe of LJ is just different to FB, and it's silly to pretend it's not. I think you're on the money about the 'testing' -- quite often 'research' ends up meaning 'my mates', and I suspect that may be the case here.

Go and play with your books! I am going to finish my new Pratchett!
(no subject) - i_autumnheart on September 1st, 2010 02:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 04:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tomatoe18 on September 1st, 2010 03:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shivshiv5468 on September 1st, 2010 01:05 pm (UTC)
I trust my flist not to do it!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 01:08 pm (UTC)
I think that's a safe trust :-)
(Deleted comment)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 01:53 pm (UTC)
Well, I hate avocado, and yet I can see it is one of god's own fruits to those who love it -- to each their own! I'm just happy I'm your type of person, nutter or no :-) *Luffles back*
creme_bun on September 1st, 2010 01:50 pm (UTC)
It doesn't surprise me that the powers that be - LJ, Facebook or Twitter - are dumb. What does surprise me is you having people who dislike you. You are our voice of reason here. The kind neighbor who goes out of their way to make the newcomers welcome and to make sure the oldtimers are looked after. I'm stunned at this bit of news.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 02:00 pm (UTC)
Oh you're as lovely as your icon!

And don't be too put out about people disliking me, goodness knows I'm not. It makes perfect sense and is rather comforting. If everyone liked me all the time, then clearly I would not actually be saying or doing anything meaningful at all. I have been a bit miffed a few times when people told basic fibs, but then I decided that since they were enjoying themselves so much, I may as well leave them their joy in it, my ego is more than healthy enough to take a few knocks!
Holly: Whine complain bitch - Sokkahollyxu on September 1st, 2010 04:02 pm (UTC)
somewhere in the chaos that is LJ settings is a box marked: Hide me from Facebook and Twitter, for I care not for them!

You'd think from the general protest at Facebook and the mass facepalm of Google Buzz that social network developers would learn to put one there to begin with. Grr.

In other, happier news, I am currently working my way backwards in Chinese history and wantonly adding dragons everywhere. It's great fun!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 04:10 pm (UTC)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA! Oh goodness! I am going to start doing that with British and European history. The Battle of Hastings is IMMEDIATELY less ridiculous!
Goss: * stock - piggy - oink oinkgossymer on September 1st, 2010 04:04 pm (UTC)
Your post pretty much made me go "YES" - not too worried about FB/Twit crossposts personally but we're probably the minority in that regard since most users have adapted their ljs for very specific purposes with the idea that what happens in vegas under lock, stays there.

I wish LJ handled these foot-in-mouth situations better though and didn't wait 24+ hours usually to post an update, since by that time people have already decided enough is enough and switched to DW or something.

Am far more anxious about pingbacks - for one thing, I don't want to wonder about all the reasons why people might have mentioned a post of mine under flock.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 1st, 2010 04:11 pm (UTC)
At least pingbacks appear to be turn offable. Oh that is so not a word ... I swear, my grip on English fades with every day of snot thanks to this damned flu ...
(no subject) - drbunsen on September 9th, 2010 08:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
dylansbuzz: Dan oh my goddylansbuzz on September 1st, 2010 05:14 pm (UTC)
I trust my current friends list to not go off and re-post,tweet or fb my stuff, but I worry that this will force some people to go into hiding; to stop posting personal things and opinions and retreat into a world of memes and youtube videos. (Not that those are bad, mind you, but I like to know about the real issues of people on my flist, you know?)

There was a time, about two years ago or so where god forbid that this option existed, cause I had haters, and probably still do, but hopefully we're all too mature and busy to spend time doing nasty things to each other. But this is a new day, new LJ and so now I feel fine with the people I let see me.

I personally find it reprehensible that potential and current employers find it acceptable to google their employees, find their fbs and twitters and base one's prospective and/or continued employment on such things. Granted, it's common sense, I think, to not post remarks such as "I work at ABC Company in Des Moines, Iowa, and my boss is a fan of S&M mouse-porn," but still, to have someone make a decision on you because you twitter, "Whoo, I like me some Molson!" seems pretty stupid to me.

Okay, I digress. And I always ramble in your LJ!