?

Log in

No account? Create an account
 
 
17 September 2008 @ 08:33 pm
Pilgrims gave me flu!  
No, seriously! Months after their orange backpacks left the Emerald City, Sydney is still feeling the impact of the WYD pilgrims' sharing natures. THEY LEFT US THIS FLU! Bastards! And look, even the Catholic News says it's true! Well, likely at any rate.  Apparently the three-week-plus flu that turns to bronchitis is knocking people out across the city, and has been since July, so I am not alone in my feebleness.

Honestly, it was bad enough when it was just nuns trying to plough me to the ground.
 
Bryoney opined that I have been talking too much sport and not enough fandom lately, so three links to make her feel loved. The first is to a very interesting question posed by bewarethesmirk  in her post here. She asks what it is about some styles of writing that immediately succeeds in drawing the reader in. I've blathered on at length in a comment, as have several others, and I think that we're edging towards the total picture, but I am sure that more brains, particularly brains as big as you lot have, will get to the actual answer. Alas, it's flocked, but if you're not on her flist, feel free to chat here.

My dear jadzialove  wrote a story recently in which Weasley brothers engaged in activities of an adult nature only suitable for readers over 18. With each other. We both squealed in a frightened fashion, she even while writing. However, that was nothing compared to this story from The Times. To quote their head and standfirst:
</lj></lj>

I had sex with my brother but I don't feel guilty

A woman slept with her sibling for years and has good memories. Not many people understand their relationship, she says

I can't say I'm surprised to hear that.

For maximum bemusement, you have to read the comments.

Thirdly, Maya has posted the last chapter of Quality of Mercy, and 

there have been many posts along the lines of OMG, it's not H/D! To which I have to say, der! There was never any pairing specified, Harry and Ginny's relationship has been written as genuine and developing the whole way through, Harry has been protective and fraternal in his relationship with Draco and Draco has been someone desperately trying to forge actual relationships in his world, rather than just getting what he wants. Why would a writer ditch all of that worldbuilding for a ship in which she has only written some of her fics? 

I sometimes wonder if people actually read fics as actual creative works or just go through them ticking off their internal preference list. "Yay, there's a cool one-liner, there's an insight into canon, there's a good spot of fanon, excellent UST, and ... and ... THAT'S IT? NO SMEX? YOU SUCK!" On bad days, I suspect the latter.

Oh well. A happy fandom aside: 2500 words of Darkfest written, 1700 of them even consecutive!

And, my final Paralympics moment, Australia lost to the US in the rugby, but Kurt Fearnley won the marathon! YAY!
 


 
 
 
It's a Deensedeensey on September 17th, 2008 12:19 pm (UTC)
You might credit a dear dear friend who brought the TRUTH behind this EPIDEMIC to your attention. All i'm sayin'.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I could, but that would involve revealing my sources and I was taught never to do that. (I'm taking it as a trade for the book I put you onto that was your find ;-)
(no subject) - deensey on September 17th, 2008 12:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
AMY 凛☆ラブ☆アタックtomatoe18 on September 17th, 2008 12:32 pm (UTC)
Uhm. :O

... I've been rendered speechless.

On the other hand...

Bryoney opined that I have been talking too much sport and not enough fandom lately, so three links to make her feel loved.

You talking about sport is exciting, though! :D
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:33 pm (UTC)
I think so, on both counts!
Tua: wavetuawahine on September 17th, 2008 12:37 pm (UTC)
I haven't read 'Quality of Mercy' yet (I as waiting for it to be complete), but as a non-shipper let me just say YES to your reaction, especially the second part. *hides from H/D crowd*

(And as far as I can tell, bewarethesmirk's post IS locked, btw.)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:40 pm (UTC)
DAMMIT, it is, too. I blame Pilgrim Flu.

I'll edit that. Meanwhile, you can read QoM at last, hurrah! It's good, though the ending has its flaws, though they're not the ones that people are on about.
the source of all heresiesms_worplesdon on September 17th, 2008 12:41 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry you're not feeling well. :(

I honestly didn't know that Maya wrote other pairings. It wasn't until the second to last chapter that I even saw someone mention it. Hah! Though I certainly hope no one was wasting their time waiting around for an NC-17 because she simply doesn't write those. It was a gorgeous story, wasn't it? I can't wait for the end of Drop Dead Gorgeous, now. *waits*

That article was fantastic, thank you! :D
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:46 pm (UTC)
I'm over the immediate dying phase, so not as bad as it could have been! Yeah, I think that DDG has driven all of the Smith/Draco, and Hermione/Draco etc. out of people's minds. And you're very right, I'm more likely to deliver a sex scene than Maya is!

But yes, gorgeous is the word. I found the ending a trifle rushed, but the depth of care and love she gave her characters made the whole thing such a pleasure to read. I still haven't commented because I am trying to process it to a point where I think I can really sum up what I think.

And fantastic certainly sums up that article! Truth is so much weirder than fiction!
parallel parking prodigyempress_jae on September 17th, 2008 12:56 pm (UTC)
actually, i'm glad you talk sport. there aren't enough women in my life to talk sport with. especially in fandom. so i'm encouraging you to continue on with the sport talk. in fact, you should have a sport filter. it would probably be just you and me, but we'd be the coolest people ever!! :P
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 12:58 pm (UTC)
We'd be? WE ARE!

Though I think there would be a few more women in the filter, even though some of them only love F1 or British tennis players.
(no subject) - empress_jae on September 17th, 2008 01:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - empress_jae on September 17th, 2008 01:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - empress_jae on September 17th, 2008 01:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
beatnikspinster on September 17th, 2008 01:02 pm (UTC)
Ah, where there is religion, there is plague. I'm bookmarking that story in case they ever try to come here. Thanks for the warning!

warning: unpopular opinion...
About QoM reactions. She used the H/D UST to carry the tension in the story. So of course when it's unfulfilled, people will complain. If it was intended as a gen-with-slash-sidestory, then the UST should've been demoted in focus. It felt like a bait and switch. I read gen stories with/without H/D accents. I love "Not in the Hands of Boys". If Harry and Draco don't end up together in that, I wouldn't be disappointed, because the rest of the story is engaging, and it doesn't rest on UST to carry the dramatic tension.

Obviously, I should reveal my general dislike of UST. It's not my thing. So, if someone misuses or abuses it, I'm quick to call it out and quit the story. I didn't quit QoM, but it was a close thing.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:10 pm (UTC)
As it was in the Middle Ages, so it is in the Current Times!

Look, I think that's a valid reading and I can see how you come to it. For me I read the story where Draco is a rat immediately before I started QoM, so I was always reading it as a more Gen story, and saw Draco's UST for Harry as another aspect of his experimentation with his relationships and sexuality, like Charlie and Pansy and even Smith and Nott.

I think if I had begun to read it now, having been immersed in H/D for a whole year, I might have had a slightly different mindset, but I would still have suspected it was going to end up H/G given the previous chapters.

DDG, of course, needs to end up H/D or with Draco neatly wiping you-know-who's blood from his lily white hands.
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on September 17th, 2008 01:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - beatnikspinster on September 17th, 2008 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - beatnikspinster on September 18th, 2008 05:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 05:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on September 17th, 2008 01:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - beatnikspinster on September 17th, 2008 02:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on September 17th, 2008 02:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - beatnikspinster on September 17th, 2008 05:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 01:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 02:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 02:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 02:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 02:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 02:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 02:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 03:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 03:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 03:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 03:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - beatnikspinster on September 17th, 2008 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourth_rose on September 17th, 2008 02:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spacefragments on September 17th, 2008 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 05:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - azurelunatic on September 17th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 05:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
I'm with you on this - kestrelsparhawk on September 18th, 2008 12:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I'm with you on this - beatnikspinster on September 18th, 2008 02:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I'm with you on this - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 05:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
maggie: HP Harry&Dracomarguerite_26 on September 17th, 2008 01:09 pm (UTC)
Re: Quality of Mercy.

I think the reaction of 'OMG! it's not H/D' is very valid. It's not that anyone truly expect a bunch of kinky porn in the last chapter (I hope) but the H/D was played up equally if not far more than H/G. Ginny had a lovely journey from canon!Ginny to be someone very likeable. But Harry was also on a journey from someone who only thought of Draco as someone to save to be someone to fall in love with. His focus was almost enterly on Draco throughout the fic.

I'm not saying that I was 100% sure it was H/D, clearly it could have gone either way but my guess (and my hope) was certianly with H/D.

I'm not going to rant about not getting my choice, But Maya played her cards close to her chest, so fans have a right to be surprise to be disappointed/surprised either way it turned out.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:21 pm (UTC)
but the H/D was played up equally if not far more than H/G.

I can see that reading, but it's not the one that my brain came up with.

I think both readings are probably right, there's certainly textual support for them, and it comes from your starting point. I started thinking she was a fairly het/gen writer because the story I'd read before was Draco Malfoy the Amazing Bouncing Rat, which is DM/HG.

For me there was such a strong emphasis on Harry finally having a family, and wanting to provide that for Draco, too. And the guilt he felt when he realised he was jealous of Charlie was the guilt of someone fancying someone wholly inappropriate. So I was all set up for Harry doing the 'honourable thing', especially after his lovely speech in the penultimate chapter. I wasn't in the least surprised when he did!

But now I am wondering, is the idea that a story needs to end H/D the major reason to read for some people? That hadn't occurred to me, because I am crap at fandom ;-)
(no subject) - marguerite_26 on September 17th, 2008 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 02:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Libbylibby_drew on September 17th, 2008 01:14 pm (UTC)
I didn't realize you were writing for darkfest. Now I'm torn between desperately wanting to read it, and being terrified it's going to turn me inside out -- as you manage to do that with frightening ease.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:22 pm (UTC)
Well, you pimped it so well, I couldn't resist. And pot, kettle much?!
(no subject) - libby_drew on September 17th, 2008 01:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - libby_drew on September 17th, 2008 01:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Bryoneybryoneybrynn on September 17th, 2008 01:19 pm (UTC)
Awwww, just for me? lol

I tell you, no good comes of World Youth Day. You got the flu, we got massive sewage flood. Berrr, nothing good. *grumbles under her breath about religion and teenagers and Popes*

In terms of QoM, I confess to being a little let down, not so much that it wasn't h/d (though I was disappointed about that - it would have been a really wonderful crafting of their coming together but whatever, I can deal) but more that the ending felt so rushed. This has been my favourite SRB fic and I know she has other obligations now and needs to wrap it up but it seemed like a lot happened very quickly and the epilogue didn't cut it for me in terms of bringing emotional closure. I liked the openness of it - maybe Harry and Ginny would work out, maybe they wouldn't, Harry and Draco are still close, who knows what will happen there - but I just felt unsettled. BUT, it was still a great story.

Now, off to check out bewarethesmirk and the smarty-pants conversation you've been having.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:44 pm (UTC)
You have recommended against WYD all along, and you were right!

I actually agree with your reading of the ending. I thought the H/G was inevitable, but the whole battle felt rushed and strangely paced. Her inter-relationships were lovely, but her pacing and plot were a bit off. And yeah, the epilogue was a little like that American Soap that famously had someone waking up and declaring the last X months plot lines to be 'just a dream!' Not that I saw it because I am clearly far too high-brow for that ;-)

I really want to read what you have to say to BTS, I got about halfway to where I wanted to be then ran out of brains!
(no subject) - suttonwriter on September 18th, 2008 08:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 19th, 2008 03:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
trichinopoly ash: animal: whalealdehyde on September 17th, 2008 01:30 pm (UTC)
i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
i, personally, was happy with the ending and the epilogue because i felt that it stayed true to all the characters. all the non-canon ships in the story were ambiguous to begin with, and stayed that way, and the way maya included a line about "this summer and more summers to come" or harry's declaration that he was "just getting started" leaves the future open for interpretation. so he COULD end up with draco, or maybe he'll stay with ginny forever, and so on. the conclusion didn't feel forced to me, given that harry's always been very appreciative of ginny throughout the fic and has never really completely defined his feelings for draco. so yea, i was happy with the ending.

some of the folks on my flist who were unhappy felt that way b/c they simply like defined pairings. if h/g had been defined from the beginning and it ended that way, they would've been satisfied. i guess this situation feels like dangling a carrot before the donkey and all that, only to be presented with an unappetising stick ;)

that being said, i know i'd be quite upset if DDG didn't end as h/d. if one of the characters DIES and that's the reason for harry not ending up with draco [or something along those lines], then i'll be understanding. but otherwise i'll be more than disappointed b/c the entire fic has revolved around harry's obsession/love for draco.

i haven't read the times article you linked, but i don't understand how siblings can sleep with each other either. i may be able to read about in fic [although it squicks me out like no tomorrow] but my aversion to in RL is even greater *shudders*
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:41 pm (UTC)
Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;(
Oh that's not absurdly long at all!

I have to quote myself in another answer:
DDG, of course, needs to end up H/D or with Draco neatly wiping you-know-who's blood from his lily white hands.

There is no other way!

But yeah, I can see why people who came into QoM through DDG would have the reading they're mostly having. I do think that SRB gave a load of hints to defuse that reading, and they were fairly anvilicious in the last chapter, but fandom trains us to be strange readers sometimes. Like the defined pairings thing ... why do we only read stories in our ships? As soon as I have time I shall read more gen and het! (So, 2012)

The article is frankly odd, though I am happy that neither of them seem to be damaged by the experience. But the responses are hilarious. My favourite was a person who essentially said: "You are going to hell and your actions are a sign that we are in the end of days when Satan walks the Earth and siblings go for a quick shag when mum and dad are out, that's just sick! Having said that, this was a very well-written article."
Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;( - aldehyde on September 17th, 2008 02:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: i apologise for this absurdly long comment ;( - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
oopsoddishly on September 17th, 2008 01:44 pm (UTC)
That article just brightened my afternoon!

And I second tomatoe18's comment that you talking sport is exciting. Yesterday's post? I almost died laughing. You make it sound so very thrilling. ;)

In terms of QoM, I agree with you, I think, from my don't want to examine my feelings too deeply in case I burst into tears viewpoint. I guess if it had been a couple of chapters longer, or maybe if Draco's kiss/revelation had come a little sooner, I'd feel more cheated out of my H/D ending, considering that Harry feels so strongly for Draco. He just needed prompting into realising it. As it is ... well, I can kind of pretend that her epilogue comes only a day or two after the last scene, so of course Harry hasn't had time to examine his feelings in too much detail.

Which ... is probably cheating on my part. Huh. Oh well; suits me. :)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 01:52 pm (UTC)
It is so weird. I read it ages ago, and jadzialove was needing some cheering up that she wasn't an utter pervert for writing Weasleycest so I linked her to it and she said I should spread the word (of course she is, but I like her so I kept that quiet).

Yeah, I could see it going over into the H/D land, and I think there was meant to be a sense that it might, but the penultimate chapter pretty much squashed that for me. War Harry is so different to Veela Harry. Of course, if DDG ends up with them both alive and not together, I will be outraged ;-)
Coffeejunkii: starbuck: moment of joy (by lynnethenerdcoffeejunkii on September 17th, 2008 03:00 pm (UTC)
oh, LOLOL about quality of mercy! omg, i would have been so mad. time to cross that one off the to-read list. not that i ever really intended to read it, but hey. now i know for sure.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 03:01 pm (UTC)
Read the comments to The Times story, even if you skip the actual story. There is humanity in all its rough and ready madness!
(no subject) - coffeejunkii on September 17th, 2008 03:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 03:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - coffeejunkii on September 17th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 17th, 2008 03:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - coffeejunkii on September 17th, 2008 03:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
bewarethesmirkbewarethesmirk on September 17th, 2008 05:48 pm (UTC)
I know it's a nuisance that my journal is f-locked. :( People are willing to friend me, though. Thanks for linking to it.

And I must say I enjoyed QoM very much. While I don't think Harry's feelings for Draco are all the fraternal, the fact that H/D was not clearly resolved is not a huge hang-up for me. :)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:24 pm (UTC)
I'm waiting for some of the ones I know are on your flist to weigh in! It's such an interesting discussion!

And I have to say that yes, he's certainly not all fraternal, and that I can agree that H/G might fail in future and H/D come about, but I did like the H/G in QoM far more than that in DH!
(no subject) - bewarethesmirk on September 19th, 2008 01:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
Camden: GinnyGayPornabusing_sarcasm on September 17th, 2008 06:22 pm (UTC)
I'm not mad about the ending of QoM. Maybe it has to do with being a writer myself, but I have a bit of a hang-up about people demanding things from writers. Like, "Oh, you HAVE to make this H/D!" or "You CAN'T write Harry/Ginny!" Well, pshaw on that. Anyone can write whatever they want.

Also, I'm not a heterophobe like some slash readers (not accusing anyone, just saying...), and I read H/G from time to time - willingly, mind you - so I'm not upset that it ended up as H/G.

I just felt sort of... Let down. The story felt like it was building to something, and then sort of deflated for me. That was my problem with it. I wanted there to be some sort of revelation or explosion beyond The Battle of Hogwarts (which I DID already read about in the book... Ooh, bitchy! *gasp*).

Anyway, I predict the wank will be great with this one and I plan to stand over to the side being relieved that I'm a complete H/D noob who didn't even read the fic until 36 hours ago and wasn't really invested anyway.

And I've been enjoying your sporty posts! It's nice to read about something different every once in a while. :D
shoeboxer4life on September 17th, 2008 07:06 pm (UTC)
Icon love!
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
shoeboxer4life on September 17th, 2008 07:07 pm (UTC)
Oh, I should have asked you first. I mentioned this post of yours and comments in my post to ddg_and_sundry:
http://community.livejournal.com/ddg_and_sundry/13803.html#cutid1

Sorry I didn't ask in advance. Thanks as usual for your thoughts! You can read mine in that post if you want

Love, Anna
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 03:26 am (UTC)
That's fine, the reason I don't tend to flock is because I always want this to be a place of open discussion and sometimes debate. And Justin/catapults is HILARIOUS!!!! I hope to have time to read that whole thread tonight, it's intriguing.
Voldemoo: twirly miciefrantic_mice on September 17th, 2008 09:40 pm (UTC)
Erm, I'm just gonna copy&paste the comment I left Maya:

I COULD TOTES SING THE MOULIN ROUGE soundtrack TO THIS STORY!!OMG!! At first it was OMGILOVEYOU and then it was WHATYOUBETRAYME?!?! and then it was OMGCOMEWHATMAYILUFOREVERBABY!111!!!!

I LOVAGED the ending. LOVAGED EET!! And I did not think I would, moving as it was toward the newandimprovedninja!Ginny/Harry relationship. BUT!!!!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!!!! I read it today in a waiting room, and BOYOHBOY was it everything I could hope for and moar. SURE I didn't get my H/D loving but, you knoe what? It was BETTER than certainty, better than having things neatly folded and put away in a drawer (?which). IMO and maybe I'm totes wrong but I dun think it ended HP/GW. I think it ended up with all the cards in the air and all my BEAUTIFUL young things looking UP with hopeful faces at the cards to see where they'd fall. I'm so so happy with this ending I can't even explain it to meself. It gave me exactly what the Epilogue took a way, a Harry-lief full of possibilities. I FEEL THE HOPE. ♥ ♥ ♥ :)))))))))))))
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:39 pm (UTC)
I have the BEST mental image of a little mouse standing on a rooftop overlooking Paris and singing her heart out!

And yes, I think you are totally right about the end not being the whole end! That's what I liked about it being set so closely to the battle scene, they were left young and open to change, not middle aged and still with their old prejudices.

Hope you're feeling better, Moo!
kestrelsparhawkkestrelsparhawk on September 18th, 2008 12:41 am (UTC)
Thanks for the discussion
I posted the biggest part of my opinion in reply to Heathen, and then realized I need to thank you for having a place to vent. I figure you won't hate me for saying I do feel ripped off by QOM, and it's because of the way the story was written, not simply because I think all fanfic should be H/D. (Though had I known it wasn't, I certainly wouldn't have read it WIP. I guess I've learned what I always say and never do: no more WIPs except for beta-ing. I'm going to look at DDG comments before I read anymore of it.)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 03:20 am (UTC)
Re: Thanks for the discussion
No hate at all! in fact I am LOVING the way that people are discussing this! I seriously believe that I have one of the smartest and most grown-up flists around, probably only matched by those of most of my friends ...
Re: Thanks for the discussion - kestrelsparhawk on September 18th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Thanks for the discussion - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 11:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
women's lasers: harry potter - wasting potentialsarcasticpixie on September 18th, 2008 02:54 am (UTC)
As RE: the internal preference list -- yes, people definitely do that, and in many situations, I'm one of those people. It's generally when you're dipping your toes into a little-explored fandom or pairing, and you're trying to gobble up everything you can get. I find my internal preference list works a bit differently, though; I'll put up with quite a bit just to feel validated that someone's written something I thought only existed in my bizarre little brain.

As RE: the mad OMG HET ONOZ posts... I get it, to an extent, in that I also felt a bit disappointed. The ending was definitely rushed, but the epilogue was delightful. I think my own disappointment stems from how very, very well Maya (although I suppose she's Sarah these days) has always written H/D -- it's compulsively readable and heartbreaking and funny and fantastic, all at once. I was expecting that moment, and it never came in QoM.

I'll also agree with another commenter who pointed out how very, very much the UST figured into the story -- of course it's entirely believable that two seventeen-year-old boys would have mixed-up feelings RE: each other that didn't end in smex0rz, but I didn't think this story was one of them, because of the attention paid to the UST and the longing glances and the compatibility... of course, the events of the last two or three chapters easily could have been spread into seven or eight but for the obvious time constraints.

In short -- and incoherently, since I spent the day sitting in a retirement plan implementation meeting and the evening cleaning carpets -- it's still an enjoyable, remarkably well-written story. But I get the disappointment on a level other than the visceral.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 03:24 am (UTC)
Not incoherent at all, in fact I think that you probably cover the key points of the discussion most succinctly of all of us! And I agree with you that the action and plot parts of the chapter seemed very rushed and under-formed.

I wonder if there would be the same sense of outrage if it was a story that fandom had come to with different expectations? Because I am sure that my reading of it was very informed by the fact I'd been reading Sarah het just before I began this one. I'm loving this discussion, everyone has such interesting viewpoints to add!
November Snowflake: writingnovembersnow on September 18th, 2008 02:56 am (UTC)
I sometimes wonder if people actually read fics as actual creative works or just go through them ticking off their internal preference list. "Yay, there's a cool one-liner, there's an insight into canon, there's a good spot of fanon, excellent UST, and ... and ... THAT'S IT? NO SMEX? YOU SUCK!" On bad days, I suspect the latter.

It kind of amazes me how people in fandom (or people in general, I suppose) sometimes refuse to entertain the possibility that their expectations might not be fulfilled. I spent two years chipping away at a long fic and posting it sporadically as a WIP, and I warned readers from the outset that it would never go above PG-13. I still ended up with a lot of readers who felt disappointed that there was no sex (or even, actually, a kiss, because I am just that evil).

As for QoM, I really loved the ending. I loved the happiness and the hope of it, but perhaps above all I loved the ambiguity of it. Yeah, Harry's with Ginny, but things are at present unsettled. Maybe he will end up sharing a lifetime with her. Maybe they'll grow apart and Harry will turn to Draco at last. Or maybe he won't end up with either, since he is, after all, only a teenager with his whole life a beautiful blank page before him. I love that she doesn't absolutely resolve things. And I really need to go back to her LJ and re-read the chapter so I can tell her in more detail just why I did love it so much. ;)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 03:18 am (UTC)
YES! I think exactly the same things!

In the first case, after thinking about it last night, I do take many people's point that Maya may have deliberately allowed people to assume H/D. I wasn't one of those people, but I can see how anyone who reads her as an H/D writer would have read QoM in ways that reinforced their intentionalist stance. And I can see why they were surprised, I was surprised at the end of DH when there was no rapprochement with the Slytherins, because I had always assumed there must be.

But the things you loved about the ending are the elements that made it succeed for me. I think that action and plot-wise it was a little rushed, but you have perfectly described what worked, and how well it did!

Heh! Go you and your resistance to peer pressure! Not every story needs porn!
(no subject) - novembersnow on September 18th, 2008 03:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 06:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sarah Rees Brennansarahtales on September 18th, 2008 08:21 am (UTC)
I do not wish to be the Annoying Writer rushing around the place saying 'Let me tell you of ze symbolism!' but I did want to say thank you for the very thoughtful post, I'm really enjoying the discussion! (Sometimes wincing, but this is par for the course when you put something out there.)

I knew people were hoping for H/D and I was braced for disappointment but I felt my first responsibility was to write the best story I could. I was sorry to disappoint people, but I would've felt I was letting them down very badly by writing the wrong ending. I realise you didn't think the end was perfect (sadly, I have never ever written anything perfect, though that's no reason to stop trying) but I am glad you were okay with the pairing: thank you for the thoughts and provoking the discussion!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 05:22 pm (UTC)
Well, at least it's comparatively subtle symbolism; Justin's catapults could have been cannon ...

As I say, I think that the ending of the story came naturally out of what had gone before. And the pacing issues through the battle were a natural consequence of time. There's only so much effort you can put into fic when there is original writing to be done. And it certainly wasn't *bad*. The relationships between the characters were beautifully drawn, and I loved the dragon -- of COURSE! (And I am now wondering why Charlie Weasley didn't just turn up with a bomber wing of giant reptiles in DH. Probably because JKR had visons of the film version looking like Battle of Britain.)

I have very much enjoyed the thoughts that your writing provokes. From Harry's guilt over Nagini to the questions of what makes a family, it's been an original journey. As an editor, I spend a lot of time despairing about the future of narrative writing, but you're one of the people who cheers me up.
(no subject) - sarahtales on September 18th, 2008 08:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 19th, 2008 03:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
grey_hunter on September 18th, 2008 02:13 pm (UTC)
I haven't (yet?) read QoM. So, is there a connection between you saying that in the fic, you saw Harry and Draco primarily as each other's family and the fact that, in the same post, you link to an article about someone having happy and fulfilling sex with her brother for years? :P

Oh, and you know what? Whenever people post about their progress re:fic writing, they manage to make me nervous about my own lack of progress. This post is the first that hasn't. :D
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 03:43 pm (UTC)
HA! Not an intentional one, but there may be a subconscious one!

That's because I'm incredibly slow, isn't it? ;-)
(no subject) - grey_hunter on September 18th, 2008 04:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on September 18th, 2008 04:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grey_hunter on September 18th, 2008 05:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Who's Queen?: A h/d romanceelephantqueen25 on September 18th, 2008 10:23 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much for the article recommendation. I found it so interesting and informative. Despite reading fanfic I've never really thought about this sort of relationship before in a positive light. The comments were most definitely the best bit though. :D Just shows what a diverse world we live in.
In relation to QoM, I loved it, as I have done with all of Maya's fics. Although to be fair, I do feel some valid points have been discussed here. It... amuses me I suppose, that the fic has been subjected to so many discussions! It seems to me that there hasn't been so many different opinions about a story since the seventh book itself was released LOL. A sign of Maya's fanbase no doubt.
Thanks again for the article. :D
blamebramptonblamebrampton on September 19th, 2008 03:23 pm (UTC)
I'm so glad that someone read that! It fascinated me when I first read it, and when I recced it to jadzia, she was so amazed she suggested I share it further. Like you, it's just not a conclusion I'd have come to without reading that story. And diverse is a lovely way of putting it!

I think that the issues some people had with DH meant that they were hoping Maya would address them in her telling of that time. I have to say I like her Slytherins much more than the canon ones. But you're very right in that only a very good, and popular, writer can elicit this much discussion!
Robynarobynsung on October 12th, 2008 07:20 am (UTC)
Confessed heterophobe
As abusing_sarcasm said in a comment left below, the word is heterophobe.

I am a confessed heterophobe, and I've tried to reform, but I can't, I just can't! I see a fic, it's promising, then I see Harry/Ginny and I shudder at how utterly freudian it is, oedipus complex anyone? run, in the other direction where Snarry and Drarry abound!

It might stem for the fact that even when I try to write, I giggle when I'm writing het, it's just...no. Which is really the cognitive process my brain goes through.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of great fiction that results in the pairing being left up in the air, and it's satisfying, and it leaves one to appreciate the beauty in the writing and not just revel in the pairing. Not to say that one doesn't appreciate the beauty in a paired fic, but you know what I mean.

Let's face it, fandom is full of fangirls who are all romantics/lustaholics. The smex is almost expected now, it's unfortunate but true.

My reformation is a WIP.
Robynarobynsung on October 12th, 2008 07:21 am (UTC)
Re: Confessed heterophobe
I just realized that it's comment left above, not below.
Oops.
Re: Confessed heterophobe - blamebrampton on October 12th, 2008 07:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - arobynsung on October 12th, 2008 07:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - blamebrampton on October 12th, 2008 07:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - arobynsung on October 12th, 2008 07:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - blamebrampton on October 12th, 2008 07:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - arobynsung on October 12th, 2008 08:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - blamebrampton on October 12th, 2008 08:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Confessed heterophobe - arobynsung on October 12th, 2008 09:32 am (UTC) (Expand)