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09 August 2011 @ 09:20 am
Oh FFS, kids ...  
The 80s were tedious the first time around. Can we stop it with the tribute already?
cassie_black: stupid people/large groupscassie_black12 on August 8th, 2011 11:23 pm (UTC)
The riots are bad enough, but if they start bringing back poodle perms and blue eyeliner, I'm out of here!
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 8th, 2011 11:30 pm (UTC)
There are limits. Big-shouldered sequin jackets *shiver!*

I swear, it's ridiculous. Massive recession, energy crisis, Conservative government cutting public projects at the same time as reducing policing (because no one has ever been upset by hard times in the past), racial elements to the thuggery, a police mistake that could be a genuine mistake but made grim by the lack of response ... I mean, who could have imagined any of this could go bad?
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 07:46 am (UTC)
We still don't know it was a mistake...
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 08:40 am (UTC)
Shooting a suspect you are meant to be arresting is always a mistake, which is why the first police step after a shooting is always an inquiry. Sometimes it's a justified mistake, sometimes not, that's up to the inquiry.
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 09:19 am (UTC)
Shooting someone who is shooting at you is never a mistake.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 09:35 am (UTC)
The officer who fired the lethal shots has been quoted as saying that he was not fired upon, but rather that he opened fire because he believed he was in danger from a lethal weapon.

I have immense sympathy for the fact that it is always easy for things to go horribly wrong the minute you have guns involved, and I feel very sorry for the policeman involved, because regardless of what happened, I think he is probably having nearly as bad a week of it as the Duggans.

The Met seriously fell down on their own procedures and rules when they did not inform the Duggan family and left it for them to find out from the news. They have admitted as much today, which I think would have happened without the protests, though perhaps not as quickly. (The riots and looting, which are inexcusable, are not really connected to Mark Duggan, save by the flimsiest of excuses.)

And it can be a mistake to shoot people who are shooting at you. There was a case in Australia since I have been living here where a mentally deranged person had a handgun, but the house in which he or she (cannot recall now) was holed-up was otherwise empty, the area was cordoned off, and the police had a perimeter far enough back that they could wait it out. They shot instead, and were found to have made the wrong decision by the inquest that followed (I am fairly sure the disturbed person survived, but as you can see, my memories of the event are very hazy.)
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 10:40 am (UTC)
After his mate was taken to hospital after being shot, apparently.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 10:47 am (UTC)
By him, I'm afraid.
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 11:27 am (UTC)
I'm not sure where you're getting this 'information' from as the IPCC report is not yet issued and neither man is allowed to talk to the press...
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 12:18 pm (UTC)
The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/mark-duggan-handgun-lethal-weapon

Both they and the BBC are reporting the reports, not the actual report, so all this is subject to change, of course.
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 12:21 pm (UTC)
They are reporting rumours. At least, the Gruniad is. It is reporting stuff that it believes has been leaked to it. That may prove correct - but it is certainly not fact.

Just now the IPCC felt compelled to deny at least one of those circulating rumours - the gun was a real gun, not a replica.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 12:40 pm (UTC)
At the moment, there is no official report, though the Guardian has a rather good crime desk and their only mention of the fake gun rumour that I know of has been to say that it was a fake fake gun, as it were.

Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 01:12 pm (UTC)
The Guardian can be a very good paper but, like all the other papers in the UK, it has a particular political agenda and prefers stories that pander to it.

If these reports turn out to be wrong, it can always say it was misinformed - and will, if it bothers at all. If they turn out to be correct it will pat itself on the back so hard it will fall forwards.

More seriously, I don't believe any of it at the moment. I will not be totally shocked if the Guardian reports are true, but I will be even less shocked if they prove false.

What I do know is that, if the other guy has a gun, you shoot to stop, which means shooting at the chest, which often means killing. This is true of every police force in the world. Standard practice. Only way to stop them doing it is to throw down your gun, stick you hands in the air, and yell "Don't shoot! I surrender!"
Susanlil_shepherd on August 9th, 2011 11:29 am (UTC)
This is the last official report, from the inquest.

Shari: You two faced bastard!oncelikeshari on August 8th, 2011 11:42 pm (UTC)
I think everybody doing the rioting are too young to remember what it used to be like before.

To them it's just stealing in front of the police, who can't do anything.

It'll take until somebody gets killed before they all shit themselves and stay at home with their mummies.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 8th, 2011 11:45 pm (UTC)
This is what comes from not teaching history properly!
george pushdragonpushdragon on August 8th, 2011 11:43 pm (UTC)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 8th, 2011 11:45 pm (UTC)
Ah, there's the Silver Lining. I suppose we have a few awesome David Bowie concert tours to look forward to ...
george pushdragonpushdragon on August 8th, 2011 11:50 pm (UTC)
Also Hawaii 5-O and the bloke who played Magnum PI will make a comeback - HANG ON, WAIT-
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 12:05 am (UTC)
Pingrid will explode with delight!
(Deleted comment)
This Girlthisgirl_is on August 9th, 2011 01:27 am (UTC)
I am beginning to contemplating setting a point at which I pack up and get the fuck out of here. The now-canned but at-one-point-imminent Identity Card BS had me contemplating my options, but that was mostly a matter of principle.

This is not exactly just up the road from me, like for a lot of other people, but it's still making me question my commitment to sparklemotion staying here.
Dedicated Escape Artist: Snape cursejadzialove on August 9th, 2011 01:29 am (UTC)
OMG YES! There is a radio station in town here that does an all 80s weekend and they say like it something super special. Don't they know that the only thing good about hearing a song from the 80s is the "Wow I haven't heard that in years!" Factor, which is completely lost if it's heard every effing weekend. Worse, they'll play it in regular rotation during the week too. Drives me bananas. /rant
Tara: totally bitchin mix tapetaradiane on August 9th, 2011 01:44 am (UTC)
Jaeenchanted_jae on August 9th, 2011 01:44 am (UTC)
Heyyyyyyyy! *laughs* I was a teen in the 80's, and it was a fun time to grow up. I still love to tune in the 80's station on satellite radio. Heh.
(Deleted comment)
Anwynanthraxia on August 9th, 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
If it gets rid of flares, hipster-cut jeans with attendant muffin tops, highly dodgy fluffy hedghog haircuts and pseudo-beehives, and polyester dresses and shirts in industrial green, goose shit yellow and pumpkin orange prints, I'm all for living in the 80s for the rest of my life. Mind you, I reserve the right to point and laugh at shoulder pads, the 80s equivalent to stuffing your bra in my opinion.
Keeper of the Superfluous Es!: ConversePair/Hermettethemostepotente on August 9th, 2011 02:45 am (UTC)
I'm with TD. We all have our time machines. *g*
embolinaozembolinaoz on August 9th, 2011 04:00 am (UTC)

How can you malign a decade that gave us Back to the Future, Bros, Wham, corporate hair, poodle perms, pastel power suits, Banarama, The Cure, Mel & Kim, Dynasty, Moonlighting......oh wait. That's why.


Anwynanthraxia on August 9th, 2011 02:28 pm (UTC)
Not to mention bubble skirts, leg warmers, parachute 'silk' tracksuits, Neighbours and the never ending line of Stock Aitken and Waterman clones.
Shivshiv5468 on August 9th, 2011 08:28 am (UTC)
Well it's one way to stimulate the economy and have infrastructure projects.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 9th, 2011 09:10 am (UTC)
I suppose the Olympics are ahead of schedule and all those labourers will need work soon ... Hope everyone gets this out of their system before next summer.
lokifanlokifan on August 10th, 2011 01:23 am (UTC)
I'll take All The Forehead over the Iron Lady...
κάτι τρέχει στα γύφτικα_inbetween_ on August 10th, 2011 10:28 am (UTC)
Hm. Your commenters distracted me from the fact that my 80s were always unlike what people now refer to (80s were punk and punk rock and hard core and the best brit pop, now whatever they play now) and oddly enough focus on politics: will the increasingly destructive and only bad-for-the-poor riots end in Cameron's downfall in the end? Or will it just produce better music (see all the anti-thatch greatness)? Doubt it.