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14 August 2009 @ 12:25 pm
Gosh, John C Wright  
Two days ago I did not know who John C Wright was.

Yesterday, in the wake of his fantastically bonkers argument on how teh gay is ruining the world, I asked Mr Brammers if he had ever heard of him. After a Google, Mr B said 'Erk. Yeah, picked up one of his books in a shop, put it back down. Shitful writer.'

Today I see that the post has been amended to discard all the comments to it and to do the internet equivalent of sticking his fingers in his ears and shouting 'LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!'

I'm going back to my position of two days ago, but I feel the need to say that if that's what he thinks passes for argument, then Mr B may have been overly generous in describing what Wright thinks passes for writing.

I like to think of American speculative fiction writers as being smart, talented and visionary, so I'll go back to thinking about Ursula K Le Guin, Ysabeau Wilce and Kim Stanley Robinson. MUCH nicer, and far less likely to provoke eye rolling at the stupid.

ETA: I received a reply to a comment I left on his original post. He apologised sincerely for his rudeness in the way that he wrote about the gay community. So in fairness, I should add that at least he has manners and the grace to apologise. I'd love it if the episode led him to think a bit further on the Christian message of love and charity and reflect on whether an anti-gay message fits that. Because that line of thought leads to the inevitable conclusion that it does not, since Christ's teaching was all about compassion.


 
 
 
prone to mischieftreacle_tartlet on August 14th, 2009 03:05 am (UTC)
O.O
I had never heard of him, either. Oh, truly, ignorance is bliss.
What piffle. I can think of nothing else to say. Except that perhaps he doth protest too much *giggle*
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:09 pm (UTC)
I will never for the life of me understand why people who are anti-gay seem to believe that all homosexuals are politically rabid shagbeasts, rather than slightly overweight men named Neville who live in the suburbs. Life has taught me that the latter outnumber the former bya significant factor.
Seshetasesheta_66 on August 14th, 2009 03:14 am (UTC)
*hugs you and your mommy*

I saw your post just before he zapped the comments.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:12 pm (UTC)
We're fine, we live in the inner city of the third-gayest city on earth ;-) But I am starting to think that I actually do want to become a political activist on the topic, just in a nice and gentle way. She already is, in the I will see you in court, sir, way ;-)
oldenuf2nboldenuf2nb on August 14th, 2009 03:25 am (UTC)
Not only is he a puffed up, self important blow hole (think Rush Limbaugh), he's also a fucking coward. Makes his 'four points', and then turns off comments. He's so typical of his genre of moron.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:16 pm (UTC)
What happened in America? You all had so much brio when I was young: debate was to be eagerly embraced, and logic was seen as something to aspire to while hyperbole was shunned.

Of course, in those days, you lot liked being part of the elite.

I want to find some engaged and thoughtful American conservatives and just hug them.
prone to mischieftreacle_tartlet on August 14th, 2009 03:30 am (UTC)
Also, I have emailed the link to my mum, in the hopes that she will fling from the battlements any copies of this turkey's books she might find lurking on the shelves of her library.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:18 pm (UTC)
Oh darling, we can't start censoring libraries!
adores_dracoadores_draco on August 14th, 2009 03:49 am (UTC)
The stupid and the ignorant will always be among us.'nuff said.

"Mr B may have been overly generous in describing what Wright thinks passes for writing." :))

blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:19 pm (UTC)
But WHY a_d? Thinking takes no more effort than ranting according to received prejudices!

(And I am reading your story on Sunday: it's on my list of things to Get Done!)
bare_memabonwitch on August 14th, 2009 04:36 am (UTC)
UGH. Anyone who has me writing a comment in my head that starts: "Logical Fallacies in this post, in order of appearance"...Well. That was unpleasant. Thankfully, I am not *actually* hurt or upset by these dime a dozen blowhards.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:20 pm (UTC)
Actually, that's a useful exercise for many publications these days. I wish more schools taught the techniques. And I do love your turn of phrase.
calanthe_fics on August 14th, 2009 05:42 am (UTC)
You know, I don't know why the lj community insists on highlighting these people. Let's face it, no publicity is bad publicity, and look how many HP fandomers who'd never heard of the guy now have. They teach childcare workers that the best way to manage attention seeking behaviour is not to respond or make an issue of it. If the guy in quetion was anyone who could actually make a shitsworth of difference to anything meaningful then fine. But while he's just teh crazy being a twat, ignore him.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:21 pm (UTC)
Oh, you're so sensible! It will never catch on!

*mwah!*
(no subject) - calanthe_fics on August 14th, 2009 02:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - calanthe_fics on August 14th, 2009 02:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 02:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - calanthe_fics on August 14th, 2009 03:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 03:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
anna_wing on August 14th, 2009 05:47 am (UTC)
Will make note to ignore his works henceforth. Though if he's that bad a writer I probably would have anyway. It is very fortunate that most of the authors I come across whose personal views I do not care for also produce works that I do not care for. Possibly the two are connected. Bigotry and lack of logical capacity are, after all, cognitive defects, and would therefore show themselves in a novel, which does generally require, among other things, the capacity to observe, analyse and construct rational chains of events. So the inability to do this in the real world will be reflected in the fictional world as bad writing.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:33 pm (UTC)
I can't really say. Mr Brammers is not the most temperate of critics, but as you point out, the best writing does come from people who are broader in their ability to imagine the lives of others.
grey_hunter on August 14th, 2009 07:10 am (UTC)
Thank you for the link. It was a very interesting article. I like reading about diversity (although I may not have understood all his big words). I will put it right next to the "Lucius is an archangel and Harry tries to corrupt him by flashing him his ankle in PS"-article in my collection. ^^
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:33 pm (UTC)
*Hugs you tightly for making me smile like a loon*
(no subject) - grey_hunter on August 14th, 2009 01:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grey_hunter on August 14th, 2009 02:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Potteresque Irepotteresque_ire on August 14th, 2009 07:27 am (UTC)
The argument more amused than offended me. There's a few too many logical loopholes to take it too seriously. The amusing part, for me, is that in the profile he stated that he was a lawyer and he went broke for doing so; he has the right to think and express what he does, but yeah, definitely not lawyer material *giggles again*.
Shivshiv5468 on August 14th, 2009 07:37 am (UTC)
No lawyer who references natural law as if it exists deserves to practice. Ever.

It's like justifying contract law because of dragons.
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shiv5468 on August 14th, 2009 04:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Shivshiv5468 on August 14th, 2009 07:38 am (UTC)
Good lord wasn't he stupid? I do hope it's not catching.


I've watched all the series of Torchwood now, and I haven't experienced any signs of moral decay.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:45 pm (UTC)
Not even manipulative plot twists?
(no subject) - shiv5468 on August 14th, 2009 04:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grey_hunter on August 14th, 2009 02:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shiv5468 on August 14th, 2009 04:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Vashtanvashtan on August 14th, 2009 09:12 am (UTC)
The thing is, the original entry still has the hatred going on - and I see no apology anywhere (and I'm not reading the 800+ comments to go looking for one).

And I'm not sure how his Ayn Rand fanboyism fits the Christian message, either.
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 01:52 pm (UTC)
Yes, it was just a personal apology. However, apologies are so rare these days that I have a small amount of respect for anyone big enough to make one. If only it could be coupled with compassion, or a comprehension of the world as it is not as expressed through prejudice.

Ayn Rand makes me want to invent time travel so I could go back and shout at her. And why is she such a fundamentalist hero when she was a deeply pervy shagmeister??
(no subject) - vashtan on August 14th, 2009 02:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
This Girlthisgirl_is on August 14th, 2009 11:52 am (UTC)
Oh, was this you? "There was one commenter whose feelings I actually hurt. His mother is a homosexual, and he was rightfully offended at the language I used to describe homosexuality. Him I apologized to privately, but I would also like to do it publicly. It is hard to tell, just from reading words, when people are being sincere, and when they are not, but I thought this one guy was sincere, and that most of the rest of you were engaged in rhetoric."

I'm going to go with not him not thinking further on the Christian message of love and charity: "To the trolls, my religion, which you despise, forbids me to despise you as you deserve. To you I extend the olive branch, not in any hope that it will be accepted, but so that a judge whom I fear will note on a day of judgment that I have done so."
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 12:19 pm (UTC)
Gender aside, yes, it's me! I am trying to come up with a reply to him, because I do admire people who can apologise, while at the same time I think his points are astonishingly ridiculous and he's still being insulting about and to many people.

I wish I was religious, I'd like to have a debate with him on that level, but while I know the material, I lack the faith, so I feel like a hypocrite when I argue down those lines.
(no subject) - thisgirl_is on August 14th, 2009 05:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - grey_hunter on August 14th, 2009 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thisgirl_is on August 14th, 2009 05:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
wemyss: CofETorywemyss on August 14th, 2009 02:29 pm (UTC)
'Christ's teaching was all about compassion'
I hold no brief for this Wright person, but am impelled, with the deepest love and respect for you, dear Brammers,to note that saying 'Christ's teaching was all about compassion,' is utter balls.

Mind you, returning from the grouse moors to encounter this Wrightrubbish on the one hand and what passes for debate w/r/t to the NHS and is in fact merely the collision of two hasty forms of ignorance, in which both sides are making utter asses of themselves and should all of them put a sock in it, has not precisely wondrously improved my temper. I am in fact sorely tempted to return to a grouse butt in N Derbs for the foreseeable, but have, as you know, writing to do.

That said, I could not let dodgy theology pass, even from you, love. (I love Plato, as Aristotle said, but Truth more.)

Edited at 2009-08-14 02:31 pm (UTC)
blamebramptonblamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 02:43 pm (UTC)
Re: 'Christ's teaching was all about compassion'
Admittedly, I am not a Christian and you are a FAR more reliable source of doctrinal understanding than I am. But that's the overwhelming message that I received from the gospels. Paul then served to undercut a lot of it, but Christ's actual teachings seemed to centre around caritas and agape.

Yes there were moments of rage and authority: cursing the tree (fig tree? I need to reread the Bible) and overturning the tables in the temple, but they were directed at specific outrages, while the message preached to individuals and the acts shown to them were again and again of compassion and a wish to guide people to understanding rather than condemning them.

Admittedly, my only church visits since leaving school have been the standard hatch, match, dispatch set, and I only remember the words to Jerusalem because I like Blake. I'm far sounder on Austen, which is a bit dreadful considering the differing weights of the texts on our Western canon.
Damn it, woman! - wemyss on August 14th, 2009 03:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Damn it, woman! - blamebrampton on August 14th, 2009 03:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
My reputation is saved, then. I'm greatly obliged. - wemyss on August 14th, 2009 03:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Alas, poor Hollers. - wemyss on August 14th, 2009 05:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
shadowclubshadowclub on August 14th, 2009 06:03 pm (UTC)
...Wow. I just don't even think I want to reread that to refute it.